What the chapter on career development misses about finding growth outside your lane.

Anna Swayne: Alright, hey, everyone! And welcome thanks for joining us for the latest segment of our missing chapters.

Yeah, this is a series that we do every every month. And we have Jake with us. We're just gonna wait a little bit as we get a few others joining us, but as everyone joins us. if you want to put in the chat where you're zooming in from, we would love to hear it all right. Sonia's on Sonia. Melania is one of our favorites. We're glad you're here again this month.

Jake. Do you want to start us off? Where are you? Said you're Missouri right.

Jake Alsup: Yeah. So I'm in southeast Missouri. It's Cape Gerardo, specifically. It's about 2 h south of Saint Louis. If you just follow that Missouri State line all the way down, almost halfway between yeah, St. Louis and Memphis. So flyovers, for sure.

Anna Swayne: I love it. Love it! Well, that's good, Midwest, and it's hot.

Jake Alsup: Absolutely, and it's hot. It's hot.

Anna Swayne: Amazing.

Jake Alsup: Humid. Yeah, looking at like, I don't know. It's like 97 98 real feel or something outside. It's yeah. We've been sweating.

Anna Swayne: I know the summer you always look forward to it, but then you forget, it's also gonna be really hot.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, you get the dog days, and it's rough.

Anna Swayne: I just don't do well in the humidity. That's why I live in the desert.

I think you'd call Salt Lake a desert, at least in the summertime. It feels a lot like the desert.

Jake Alsup: Kind of looked like it whenever I flew out there the last time I mean, you know, there's there's a lot of flatten in sand, I guess.

Anna Swayne: Something like that.

Jake Alsup: I don't know.

Anna Swayne: It's funny, because I think people like well, there's mountains so.

You know. How can that be? A desert? But the valley is very hot.

So all right, we've got a few others. Welcome, welcome, Marilyn. Okay. love it. Thanks for for joining us. And if if you wanna share where you're zooming in from, please put it in the chat. We're so glad you're here, so glad you're joining us on this day. wherever you are in in your day, whether it's lunchtime, or maybe you're still on your 1st cup of coffee. Coffee. We're we're glad you're here.

Alright. Well, Jake, are you? Are you ready to get going.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, yeah, let's jump into it.

Anna Swayne: Awesome. Okay, so I'll just do a quick introductions, and then we'll we'll go. So my name is Anna. I'm with Nava, and if you're not familiar with Nava. We are a benefits brokerage on a mission to fix healthcare, which is very ambitious, but we are powered and driven every day by bringing high quality, affordable healthcare to Americans. Starting with those Americans. probably roughly, a hundred 60 million Americans who rely on employee sponsored healthcare and so. or benefits brokerage to, to help that, and and improve the lives of Americans by by doing that, Jake, do you want to introduce yourself.

Jake Alsup: Absolutely. So. I'm Jake. Also, I'm the director of recruitment and hiring at community counseling Center. We're a private, charitable, not-for-profit behavioral health organization that's located in Southeast Missouri. We're actually an administrative agent for the Department of Mental Health in Missouri and provide all mental behavioral and substance use services to the clients in our 5 county area. Yeah, I've been with Ccc. Since October of 2016. So, running up on that 9 years.

Anna Swayne: Wow! That's so awesome.

Jake Alsup: I don't know what happened to the time, but it's somewhere.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, that's great. Well, I know, and full disclosure. I've known Jake for a few years, and I'm so glad you're here, Jake. I'm so glad to have this conversation with you. What you've been doing at ccc. I feel cool, knowing the acronym has been impressive. and the work that you're doing there, and the work that CC. Does is is so valuable to those who you serve. So I'm glad to to have this conversation. Thanks again, everyone for joining us. Okay, Jake, to start us all off. Can you tell us a little bit about your career path, how you got into your current role. I mean, you've had quite the tenure. And you know, 9 years. That's really impressive. Yeah, just just start us off by telling us about about that.

Jake Alsup: Yeah. So I feel like, I really need to start from the beginning, because, as more people, you know, get to know me, they get a little surprised at where my career actually started. And, to be quite honest, like I said, farm kid, you know I, 10 years old, started on the family farm, and that was every summer, mostly in the fall, while all the other neighbor kids were out, you know, enjoying their summers and going on vacations and swimming. I was sweating. I was on the tractor. I was deal with chemicals. Don't tell Osha 10 years old. That was the case, but I was out there and putting in the work from the age of 10 to 19 every single summer I was out there helping the family.

I really feel that my time on on the farm. It it really taught me that work ethic. And also, really it taught me to stay busy, or you're going to wish you were busy as well. So that kind of promotes what we're going to be talking about today, too. But even after that, you know, at around 19, that second year of college I started slinging sandwiches at Jimmy John's. If anyone's familiar delivery drive-in, and then eventually, after tearing the transmission out, going into the store all while juggling Emt. Class. I went to be an Emt. While doing my undergrad, started working as an Emt. For a local ambulance company in town shortly thereafter. And yeah, I was juggling that full time student as well as accidentally finding myself in a leadership role at Jimmy John's as well, and then post graduation got a job at Ccc. 6 months later, and 6 months after that I was promoted to my current title, and the rest is kind of history from there.

Anna Swayne: Wow! Just like as if it was already planned out for you. Just.

Jake Alsup: Something. Yeah.

Anna Swayne: So was working in recruitment. Always kind of the plan, or, you know, did you take.

Jake Alsup: Not. No, not in the slightest. Actually, I got kind of lucky. So I do like talking about this, because, as an 18 year old, you know, come fresh out of high school and everything. I thought I could conquer the world and be everything that I could be. Yeah. And I chose medical technology as a major which was just working in a lab. And yeah, that second semester of school after organic chemistry put me through the ringer. I decided it was a time for a change. And you know, in high school I was really involved in an organization called Deca, which is, you know, that business marketing related similar in a way to Fbla. but in my opinion it was better. Anyway, I figured that because my time doing that, you know, I could do a business degree. You know that easy. I can get through it, you know. Not a problem. I can get through my school. but my problem at the time is, I felt that everyone and their brother and their mother, and whoever had that business administration degree, and it was kind of a flooded market, that or marketing same thing.

Anna Swayne: Hmm.

Jake Alsup: So I was like, Well, let's do something different. You know, I just wanna have a job. When I get out of school. I essentially threw a dart. It landed on Hr. And I thought to myself, Well, everybody needs someone to hire and fire people right? This should be pretty consistent. So I decided to be a Toby Flinderson from the office and pursue degree in Hr. Management. And again I got ridiculously lucky because, as I started going through the coursework. I really enjoyed it, and I did feel that calling to it, and subsequently I started enjoying the field itself. And here I am today. But no recruitment was not the plan by any means like, I want to work in a lab. And I just I got extremely lucky. Now, looking back. it makes sense to me now that I went into talent and went to recruitment. Just because I can talk to people. I enjoy having those conversations and making those connections. But no, ask me at 18, 19 years old. Hr, no way I don't. What are you talking about?

Anna Swayne: What is, and and it's so funny as you described it as either hiring or firing. You know it's like Hr. Is so much more complex than I think a lot of people realize which I know we're going to talk about today in more detail. But wow, Jake, you talking about ochem! I also took that class.

Jake Alsup: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: A biology major. And wow, that was, that was a tough class. If you can survive that, I think you can survive anything.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, and I didn't. So.

Anna Swayne: That's really what you know. Put you on your path. For hr, okay. So, looking back, you know. you know you're you're already reflecting a little bit here, too. But looking back, you know you you mentioned there was like key moments. Can you talk to us a little bit about? You know what were those key moments when you realized you're stepping something, stepping into something bigger than just? You know your job title, or like this path that you're now on.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, just a little of that. you know. It's kind of the opposite, though I didn't realize, especially at the time, that I was stepping into something a little bit bigger. You know, I wasn't a way after the fact, even really reflecting for our conversation today that it's really making those connections. because again, I started in community counseling center in October of 2,016, as as simply a recruiter, an Hr. Recruiter. There was 3 other people on the Hr Team. None that was specific to recruitment, and they needed some extra help. So I came in. Everything was manual. We saw it, indeed. So there's some of the searches through there. But everything else was through.

Yeah. Excel files, all paper files and tracking. There wasn't a really consistent way to manage all of these candidates that were coming in. So the 1st thing I did was in November. I started researching atss applicant tracking systems. and by December of that year I was implementing community counseling centers, 1st ats, looking back. Now, that was wild because this is my 1st job in this field, and I had no idea what I was really doing, or what an implementation was, or, you know, even with the recruiting process we had, I had to make it up on the fly, so we didn't have anything in stone. So I learned, you know I try to take everything in that I could. I just jump feet 1st into the fire and try to soak everything in.

And I think a few of those other key key moments that stick out. My mind, though, was shortly after that, I guess. About 6 months we implemented our 1st human Resources information system, Hrs bamboo, Hr. And this was again 6 months after the Ats.

I can tell you. Not many people here were very happy with me because of all the change that I was pushing through. But we're using file cabinets. It was all paper, and we needed something a little bit more in the century that we were in. So that was another piece that really sticks out my mind. I also had some big hand in our redevelopment of our performance management processes. And while my role, it's been recruitment, it's been hiring and onboarding, you know, I really started stepping outside of that comfort zone, and I was able to dabble in that Hris coordination and then performance employee engagement. and I really feel that by stepping out and getting out of my comfort zone those times again I was green. I didn't know really what I was doing how to learn it as I went.

The great thing, though, is, after completing those comp those projects my confidence did start to increase, started to soar, and sure there's some of that doubt that creeps, and it's like, Do I know what I'm doing? But you know by that point it did feel like it conquer at least anything related to an implementation. After I got done with all this. Yeah, it did take some time. It was a lot of like looking back. But there's definitely those moments that I can kind of put the PIN in and says, Yeah, this was a big step for me.

Anna Swayne: Yeah. And it's so good to take that time to reflect and realize, like, okay, where you're at today. How did you get here? Cause. I think that sets up the tone. So I'm so glad you kind of walked us through your journey there. because I think that sets up the tone for this topic. You know, we're here to talk about. and the perfect person to come and talk to everyone today about this is because of this theme of like just growing outside your lane.

And when you hear that phrase, because a lot of you know whether in Hr. Or not, I think we all try to think about like, yeah, what is our next step? How do we expand? How do we, you know, move forward when you hear that phrase, what does that mean to you personally? And how should we all be thinking about it?

Jake Alsup: Well, when I hear growing outside of your lane. Honestly, my mind just immediately goes to doing what needs to be done. you know, reflecting on my experiences. I don't feel as I've ever batted an eye when it came to jumping outside of the lane to helping where you know someone needed help to making myself busy if need be. So I yeah didn't have that strong talking to you from those family members. You know. This can be a double edged sword. 100. But to me it has been simple. Something needs to be done. If I can do it. I'm gonna do it, or if I can't, or even someone at the agency isn't aware, doesn't know how, either. Then I'm gonna dive in. I'm gonna Google, I'm gonna start learning what what needs to be learned. So again, we can find that solution, we can find what needs to be done. And I feel like, that's where that growth really happens, because, having this mindset of, you know willingness to jump in, it's not only expanded those knowledge skills and abilities that use the nice little Ksa language there. but it's opened up some really awesome opportunities for me, too, if I haven't. If I hadn't jumped out of my way, and if I hadn't explored these options, or even just got myself a little uncomfortable. I wouldn't even be here talking to you today. So I put a lot to being able to work in that little bit of a gray area. I guess.

Anna Swayne: Wow! That's really good, because I think it's so valuable to know and understand, like, you know, that it was a gray area. Sometimes you don't even realize, that you have. You know you. There's things that have shaped your career in in the past. and you've been able to, you know. restructure or Google, or like, just keep learning and so I am curious. you know, looking back. And it sounds like there there has been patterns or habits, or maybe you're just out of fear consequences of being talked to on the farm or not. I love that. I love that you're like, deeply rooted in this, like just hard work, mentality. How have you approached those news challenges that have helped you drive that growth.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, well, you know, it's kind of going back to it. Yeah, I've always been that person to just jump in. And if I do find something interesting. Then I start learning about it, and honestly, I guess, shout out my Adhd for that one.

Anna Swayne: You know.

Jake Alsup: Granted. Looking back and thinking about, you know the ability to jump in here and to really expand on my knowledge and growth.

I like to to mention that one of the implementations that I did with the Ats and like the human resources system. you know, I outside of those Ats and Hrs implementation. I got the opportunity to assist in an octa, which is a single sign on provider and bamboo Hr integration build, which taught me a whole lot about Apis, and how they operate again looking at at a lane.

This isn't something that talent would usually do. You know what person in Hr is, you know, really looking at Apis and figuring out how to mesh these systems together usually falls to an It team. But since I took that time to learn the ins and outs of the system, you know they they came to me. They asked me for that help which again is stepping outside of my typical lane. Additionally, like, there's others such as like a performance management redesign, which is a huge learning opportunity for me. and even those marketing related responsibilities playing hands in our rebrand efforts being the 1st one to use AI as a resource at our agency. Even last year, you know, we implemented a new payroll system, and I was the go to as a kind of a Co. Leader for the implementation.

And it's still going to this day of being that person that gets those emails. But wonderful love helping. you know. And most of these things, they're they're not recruitment, but without stepping outside of my lane without being pretty we'll say open with the other duties as assigned it wouldn't have given me the confidence and the knowledge that I have. And now I can attribute this growth, and I guess my my mindset these more non talent related tasks hopefully that answered your questions.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, no, that's that's like perfect. Because I really do think it is a mindset. I I think, 1st and foremost, as we think about and talk about, you know, just growing outside your lane. Whether it's us personally or we're helping others, you know, on our team coworkers. I think it's it is truly a mindset. So I am curious. And you know, as you talked about some of these opportunities you've had, like with performance management, the octant integration with bamboo and the payroll like were these things that someone came to you and said, Hey, Jake, can you come help with this? Or was it opportunities where you're like? Wow! My skill set can totally help. Here, let me step in and do XY. And Z.

Jake Alsup: So it's a little bit of both on the bamboo, like the initial bamboo implementation side. I did volunteer as an option, because, you know I had just done the Ats implementation, so I had a decent knowledge on it and love my team to death. They may not be the most, as they say, techy individuals. So it kind of fell fell to me, and that was great, because I love having those opportunities, and for the the actual payroll implementation that it was asked of me because of my previous time spent.

And on the Octa bamboo Hr integration side, they asked me, and I was like, well, yeah, yeah, for sure. Let's you know I don't know a whole lot, but I can dive in and let's figure this out to make it work, and that was such a great experience, too. So another piece I didn't even mention was that ats that I had done. yeah, I guess it was around 18 or 19, but I was able to integrate them into bamboo Hr. So we're doing something different outside of that job board that they had. But having the background knowledge from everything else, it made it really easy to set up create. took, I think, maybe one or 2 h calls with implementation team to get everything squared away. But I did most of the leg work.

And again, well, yeah, ats is talent. But Api and integrations, not typically something that.

Anna Swayne: Yes.

Jake Alsup: That one in my role would usually see is so. It's been an awesome experience. And yeah, to have that. I guess confidence boost for myself when I am asked like, Hey, you know your stuff, you know. Can you help us out with this? And even if it's something small today of like creating a survey. You know, Microsoft forms, or how to automate that. You know, I'm typically someone that people ask and says my email, it's about a lot of other questions, too. But yeah, I'm always willing to help out on this.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's it's great, too. Because, like these these gray areas that, like you said aren't in your job description. But you've identified as like opportunities for growth. You having that mindset sounds like from just a series of things that you've been able to do like, how? How how can someone tell? The difference between, you know being proactive and and being seen as overstepping? When you think about your job, description of like, okay, that wasn't on your job description, but you're doing it, and you have the confidence to do it. I'm just curious, like, yeah. how you think about that.

Jake Alsup: It's a tough balance. It really is because I I've had those conversations where people have felt like I've stepped on their toes, and I. I am not a person that wants to do that by any means.

Anna Swayne: Gosh, no.

Jake Alsup: I'm all about, you know, uplifting. It's like, Hey, you're doing great, don't! I don't want to make you feel bad by any shape or form. So, in my opinion, I do feel that delivery is everything, you know. If I have an idea on a process, or efficiency, improvement, or whatever, and I know without a doubt it's not my lane that's not my area. I'm not gonna jump in and tell this person, hey, this is something you have to do, or this is wrong. No one's gonna be receptive to that. So instead, I try to tailor it in a way to where it it is, it's pushing them up, you know. It's really hyping them up, I guess, and I'll I'll create like a little little. Write up outline proposal if applicable, and I'll go to that staff member, the department head whomever it is, and bring the idea from a place of.

I had this thought, you know, I had this idea. And you're the expert, you know. I want to get your feedback on it.

And most of the times, you know, I get a lot of good feedback from the staff, and I'm not someone that is all hell bent on getting credit, either. For me. It's about bettering the agency, I mean, we work in Hr anyway. So credit, it's always one of those things we love to get. But at other times, yeah, it's usually that other feedback that we receive instead.

But I do take that other duties on the job description a little too literally in in those times, but by not having my name on it by doing it from a standpoint of Hey, this is helping. Staff is helping the agency. I think that's what makes the biggest difference, because it's not about me necessarily. I wanna them up. If it is outside of my lane. If it would be considered stepping on someone's toes, I'd much rather have them have the resources, the knowledge handy so that way they can then push it forward. I do have a good example here, which is with our marketing and branding. You know, it wasn't until almost 2 years ago that we actually had a dedicated marketing staff director of marketing at the agency. Prior to that. It felt to me because I could use the excuse of well recruiting. We need to bring candidates in. We bring candidates in through appropriate branding and advertising. This, that, and the other. so I put it upon myself to set up those parameters branding best practices and guidelines when it came to flyers, and I've been really a stickler with sticking to those brand guidelines to promote consistency. And that's especially true. Post Rebrand from last year. Well, just in mind that I noticed. It's been about 6 or 7 months now, but there was a flyer that was going out on our socials for a support group. I'm suicide Breathing support group. and the flyer itself had some room for improvement. We'll say a lot of room for improvement. and I reached out to the person who I thought created the flyer. They're part of a committee for that program, and I approached it in a way, though. So hey, this is a really great idea, you know I love that we're having this out here. Just compliment sandwich them like crazy. But then, I asked, you know. can I take a stab at trying a version out, and I'll let let me know what you think now. They didn't know I'd already done. I created a 10 min before I even emailed them. I felt that passionate about you know what that looked like, and I just asked them some of those questions that might have led them to my artistic direction, we'll say, gave it a little time, and then I shared my version. You know they ended up loving it. and I told them, just take that flyer and run with it, you know. Send it out to any others who may need it, you know. Just do what they need to do and like, Here you go. You help me with this, you know it's you that did this. So yeah, send it out. Let's get it out there. And it could have gone wildly, differently now,

I could have just said, Hey, this sucks use this instead. That might have caused a little friction. but instead, I made sure that I, you know, got their input. I got their feedback, and I wanted that staff member to feel like they had just as big of a part in the revision, and as I did. and I wanted them to be the ones to share the update, I didn't need the glory by any means I did what I felt needed to be done, and I made sure that the staff wasn't put out by it. So that's 1 of those examples where I knew that it could be an easy to step. But yeah, it's just navigating that with a bit of grace and finesse thing is what's important.

Anna Swayne: Wow! You're right. I could have gone way different, bye. but the way you approach it said a lot but I think it still goes back to like that mindset like having that mindset of growth. And your why, very clearly stated at the beginning of all of this of like, you're there to help and support and move the the mission, the agency forward. And it doesn't. It doesn't matter how or where it comes from.

Okay, so, Jake, you've talked a little bit about how these things are giving you confidence. I know at least for me myself, maybe others on the call, like sometimes that confidence doesn't come, because when areas are gray, it's really hard to one want to think you can make a difference. And so you know, something that's going around on the Internet. And it's probably been around for a while. It's just, you know. maybe more present.

Yeah, today is like this idea of imposter syndrome, and, like, you know, can I do this? Should I be doing this? Am I the right person to do this? And you're kind of giving us some examples on these things that have given you confidence along the way. So let's talk about imposter syndrome.

Jake Alsup: For sure.

Anna Swayne: How that's shown up for you early on in your career, maybe. Still today. How are you dealing with now? And like, what would you tell people who are also maybe feeling this way? Me personally, Jake, so talk to me about that. Yeah, for sure advice. Would you give? Yeah.

Jake Alsup: Yeah. So you know, imposter syndrome is still something that I still struggle with. You know, I talked this big game right? We have the confidence. We've done these things, but it still comes up constantly, and at the beginning I distinctly remember it was post Ats implementation.

I was getting ready to do a training for our supervisors on this applicant tracking system. And this is their very first, st I mean, any type of experience with an applicant tracking system.

And yeah, I was freaking out, and I've never been one that, you know has had trouble with public speaking or getting up in front of the class, or however, but it was still that little voice in my brain. It's like they know you don't know what you're talking about. You're gonna mess this up, and they're all gonna know it. You don't know what you're doing. Enjoy that unemployment line once you're done. Oh. leading up to the training and to say it was a bundles and an understatement, and what you know it. Training went without a hitch, you know. Everything went great. They loved it. They gave a lot of positive feedback couple of things that I changed up for future ones. But it works itself out. And even today take today, leading up to and probably up until the end of this call. You know, I still have that little voice that says, you know, all these people think you're a chump right like that. You don't know what you're talking about, and I know that even when I was reached out to you regarding doing this in chapters, my very 1st thought was, Oh, my gosh! They already have these all star people, you know, giving presentations. How can I compare to that?

But it comes back down to that dealing with it part right? We we might have those tough times with conversations in our head. This is, we can't.

But for me, I personally feel that therapy helped me out a ton, and I know therapy is something. You know. I work in mental health. It should be a given right. But this is something that took me a while to actually go and pursue and to talk to somebody about. This comes to from my time in Ems, and a lot of the traumas experience there. And yeah, if you talked about anything in that role, then you're off the rig, you're off your money making. Basically. So I didn't. You know. It took me a long time. I struggled quite a bit, but then I finally used that eac service that our company offers got linked up with a therapist. And not only did they give me some really good resources, but you really normalize these feelings for me and that yeah, everyone, you know has these thoughts. This is a completely normal feeling to have.

And again, he gave me those tools that I still use to this day when it comes to that imposter syndrome that comes up. So now I try to remind myself of a handful of things whenever that voice starts really jabber jaw in my ear. Number one. In my opinion, I feel like it's like circle control. You know, I have what I can control and can't control what others think or say, but I can control how I respond to stimuli, or how to process my own thoughts and feelings.

Number 2. I do, in fact, know what I'm talking about. You know I've been working in some capacity for 20, some odd years at this point, so not only do I know a thing or 2 about work ethic, but I know. Hr, I know talent, acquisition. I know. Hrs. I know what I know, and if I don't, I also know that I'm person that can go out and learn and pick this up, too. And especially now, if I'm not feeling confident my abilities, how many learning language models are there that's out there. How many AI tools, even Googling? Something, can get me somewhere. So even better, I can use.

Anna Swayne: So.

Jake Alsup: Not only those, but the many people that are around me. You know I attribute a lot of my success to my supervisor, my Hr. Director, who's been a mentor for me in these almost 9 years at the agency, but also even mentioning all these Hr communities that are available. There's so many professional communities and spaces out there that I can use as a sounding board and to get feedback.

And just because I may fail at something, it doesn't mean that I'm a failure, you know. It is an opportunity for growth, and I'll talk on that performance management first.st Try here after a while. But that was something where I failed the 1st time, but it was a learning experience for me, and there's something that one of my old professors had told me my 1st year of school is one of those university studies class, a speech class, actually.

And she had said that when it comes to public speaking. It's not really about pretending that everyone else is in their underwear. That's not the trick, you know. Instead, it's going into that mindset that you know what you're doing, even if it may feel like that you don't. You get up there, and if you have to, you know, fake it till you make it, because as long as you're confident and we sound that like you know what you're talking about, you know. How are they going to know the difference now they did go on to mention that. You know the people in the class are your peers, and they don't really care about what you're saying. They have their own problems they're dealing with. But I usually leave that out of my own talk.

But what I would tell you, you know, for anyone who's feeling that imposter syndrome is, you know, if you're feeling like an imposter, it probably means that you care, and that's a really good place to grow from.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, that's that's really good advice. It's like, and it's okay to care.

So you know, I I mean. you know, it's easy to be like. Yes, you know, if you're feeling like an imposter probably means you care. It's a good place to grow from, I I would say, like you know or I would ask you, what other things like, what other advice would you give somebody to try to stay? Try to do something outside their lane that feels under underqualified like kind of just move beyond that imposter syndrome.

So you don't get stuck because I think what happens a lot of times, myself included. You want to do something, but you're just kind of getting stuck, and you. you know you don't know how to get beyond it. I know you've already kind of shared. You know your own personal ways is like Googling using AI. Your resources.

Jake Alsup: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: I am curious, like the yeah. Any any other ideas as we're trying to make a list in our heads of like things we should be doing to to help move along.

Jake Alsup: You know, when it, when it comes to that thought and feeling like don't know where I'm under qualified, and stepping outside of my Lane to do this. This thing, this project, you know, kind of have that knee jerk, reaction of like. Well, what's what's the problem here, you know. So. feeling underqualified because.

Anna Swayne: We talked about it.

Jake Alsup: Right. The the amount of resources that we have is a bit overwhelming. You know you have so many different tools, whether it's your co-pilots, or your chat, or your Gemini Grock. Whatever the case is, you know it's hard to pick which one you turn to. but I would just recommend that you have to take that leap. You have to take that leap of faith and try to dive in and learn. Build that confidence even when it comes to something like an AI tool when it 1st came out, when Chatgpt was 1st announced. How many people did you hear about? That was just like, oh, no, it's AI. They're going to take over the world right? Yeah, right?

And and you know, now, it seems like everyone tends to turn to to chat, or one of these learning language models, and they may not do all the research or verify. It's not hallucinating, which is both great. They're using it, and also a little scary because of what's you know, being used and not edited. But I think another good example of this, and feeling feeling in a way of like. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm I'm in stuck right here. I went from being, you know, kind of overwhelmed to automated. At 1 point I was sending out what was called a 30 day evaluations to our new hires, so after the end of the 1st 30 days, I triggered any signature through our Hris, and they filled out a little questionnaire.

That was great in theory. Right? We get the feedback. I can take this feedback and then have some data on it and present that when needed, and also address issues as they come up. But the problem was, it overwhelmed me? I I got overwhelmed, because sure, I could time to pull this data. It required me to download each Pdf out and then go through and sign every one and then try and extrapolate it to excel. It was ridiculous, and I was getting behind. So one day I just sat down to try to brainstorm. You know. How can I fix this? What can I do to make really my life easier?

How can I not work as hard going back to my dad? Work smarter, not harder. That's 1 of as many things. But I started thinking about it, and I knew through some of my previous outside of my lane work with office 365. There was an application called power automate, which was supposed to, you know, help automate tasks and flows. So I decided to check it out. And when we talk about overwhelming before they made some of the ui updates, yeah, power automate was tough for me. I opened it up. I was like, what is this foreign language that I'm looking at?

So I decided to research. You know, I went through the Microsoft learning labs. I scoured the training documentation on the website. I watched Youtube videos. About a month or so later, I built my 1st flow and it was just a monthly email reminder. I used to send out monthly reminders about the employee of the quarter nominations or, Hey, here's our referral process. And that was a manual process, so I automated it. A week later I completely redeveloped my 30 day evals. turned them into Microsoft form surveys, built out a flow that not only took all of their responses and added it to a list. But I took that a step further, and was able to specifically share that with the Supervisor and their supervisor, all, without having to touch anything, and while retaining the confidentiality for the other staff that was there.

So now, outside of, you know, reviewing the data following up the staff that need it. I haven't had to manually touch those evals and almost 3 years at this point. Wow!

And that saved me a ton of time, but at the beginning I had no idea what to do with power automate. I was unqualified to use it a hundred percent. But now it's 1 of those best friends that I have. You know, it's 1 of those things I turn to for anything I need to automate. And it did. It took me stepping outside of my comfort zone into that gray area of those other duties and allowed me to learn something new. And yeah, make my life a lot easier as well. My job and the best part nowadays we have AI that can pretty well build most of those flows for you, too.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, yeah, that is so true. Well, I that's such a great example of just starting somewhere, like, just don't be paralyzed. Just start doing something and then just figuring it out, going to your resources. You're right. AI can help us do a lot of things to automate it. and take the next step like we have. You're you're absolutely right, like there should be no reason why you can't take the next step, even if you don't have any clue. There's so many resources out there.

I like Google and AI, I'll, that's that's yeah. It sounds so simple. So everyone myself start somewhere. But I think that is yeah. I think that that's the encouragement and then, like you said, it gives you that confidence, and I can see it from your past experience. I think if we all self reflect, we can, you know truly, self reflect. We can see it in our own lives about, you know, being confident or gaining confidence by realizing we have done things to move us forward. Get into those gray areas, learn something new, etc.

Okay. So you mentioned this a little bit. So I think I might know the answer. But you were talking about maybe a supervisor or a mentor you had. Let's just let's just hit on that a little bit. I don't want to go so over into like AI will help you do everything cause I do.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, right.

Anna Swayne: Like a human element of like us playing that role. Or maybe you've played that role for you know others. But yeah, let's talk about the role of mentorship. Yeah.

Jake Alsup: So first.st For myself, I feel like mentorship is ridiculously important. Again, going back to my supervisor. She is our agency's Hr. Director. She's the one that hired me on for this position, and she has. She's mentored me and has encouraged my growth and development like no other, and as you may have gathered. I'm a bit of a nerd, and, as I said, the office designated Techie Guy. They call me not it first, st when, if you happen over at my office.

So while she may not know, you know those ins and outs of everything I'm talking about when it comes especially to tech or automations or Api. You know she's always taking that time to listen to my ideas, and also really important to this conversation to reel me in. If I do start getting a little too far out there. which I need, you know, if I start straying from that path, if my focus isn't where it needs to be. She has been the one that brings me back in and brings me back to reality is like, Hey, I understand, like this is something that you're really passionate about, that you want to do. But you know, we gotta change that mindset a little bit. And again, I'm I can't sit here and say that that hasn't happened. I haven't had those conversations I have, you know, and it's needed for me like I said, I have, Adhd, I love just going every which way.

So having someone that I can turn to that will have those real conversations, but also do it from a fact of like she wants to teach me. She I want to learn from her, and she has really enhanced my growth in my position and in my career, so I I can't speak highly enough about her, and also those people that I work with, too. You know one. It's great to just work with a bunch of therapists in general makes it easy if you need to vent some. But also I have these people in my organization that I can turn to that I can, you know, throw these ideas out to, and they're here to support me, which I feel is just wonderful as well. And for myself, when it comes to stepping outside of the lane and mentoring someone else. I have provided that as feedback, we've had these internal staff that you know, apply for supervisory or leadership related positions. And you know, unfortunately, there's someone else who might meet the the competencies better. They're a better fit for the role. But I really try to pose this to them. As this is a learning opportunity, you know. And if you want to build these leadership skills, if you want to build your marketability, I guess, to us start making a name for yourself. Step out of your comfort zone. Now, if you see those opportunities to provide supervision for an internship, or to volunteer for this committee for marketing. Jump. Jump in on it, you know it's not your role. It's not your job necessarily, but this is a good way for you to kind of get outside of that comfort zone and further develop the skills that you want to grow.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's really important. If you're if you know where you want to go. Look for those opportunities. And then, yeah, do something about it. That's that's well said, okay. So here we're talking about, you know, career growth, career development. If if there was a chapter on this which I'm not sure there is a career development chapter. We'll write it.

Yeah, you're writing it today, Jake. what would what would you add to this chapter that that no one told you earlier in your journey, but now, with your you know your 2020 vision, so to speak.

Jake Alsup: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: What would you? What would you add.

Jake Alsup: Mine's kind of 2 part I I think the one that I wish I would have been told. More and more often is I was that green, bright eyed, bushy tailed new Hr person.

You're not failing. You're growing. you know, much, much like a bike. You you're gonna fall the 1st time you jump on. And now some of you may have just jumped on a bike and pedaled right away. But you could have also hit a tree. So something's gonna happen you'll learn. Yeah, you gotta learn from those mistakes, and it may not work out how you intended.

But by taking that step, by failing per se. You know you have to take it in stride, readjust, and try again. So I I do wish that I I heard that as a young person in my career was, you're not failing. You're growing, but I think another important part is increasing your value. And when I say value, I'm not talking about monetary gains. I'm not talking about going out there to try and make all the money, or go be the CEO. It's more intrinsic, you know. Increase your value to the organization, to your department, to your supervisor, your peers, to yourself even.

And again, it's not about doing it to to make the money, or however, it's about doing it, because it feels good. And you know you're contributing to that mission. and I see you know I do see a lot where some of our new hires it could be anecdotally. But yeah, they tend to stick to the job description most of the time. I'm happy if they stick to the job description and hit those tasks. and that's all well and good, you know, if I can have every employee that comes into the organization that does just the duties I'm I'm thrilled, but I will recommend to anyone who will listen that, you know. Try to find those other experiences. Step out of that comfort zone. Get a little gray if you can, because if I would never have done that again I wouldn't be here today I wouldn't be having. These conversations have the opportunity to speak on these webinars, or interact with other Hr. Professionals.

Anna Swayne: That's that's good. I I'm going to like write this on a sticky Jake, because I think this is so valuable for us to like constantly. Remember, you're not failing. You're growing like that's such great advice. Because I think it. It's it sounds cut and dry of like you made a mistake. You know you failed like you are a loser, and I think that's the self talk in our heads like you're failing. You suck at this, and it's like, No, actually, you're learning. The only way to really learn and grow is to realize, maybe not what to do. But

Jake Alsup: Yeah, but not to do.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, what not to do. So I yeah, I'm gonna I'm just making a note here. Cause I think I need to. I need this. I think maybe I you're doing this for me, Jake. Not everyone else on this call, though. I'm gonna write this down on a sticky. That's such great advice.

Jake Alsup: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: Okay, so so that kind of leads us down and into this kind of concept of and you said something else to like, increase your value. And like we talked a little bit about how you can do that when you're looking for other opportunities, etc. So I think that rolls into this idea of staying in your Lane versus creating a new one which you have definitely done being a tech guy. That wasn't on your job description.

And I remember I had a boss who was like when people would say, you stay in your lane, you know some organizations kind of have that culture of like stay in your lane, and I had a boss who was like, there are no lanes like we're all in the same lane. And that kind of, you know, made me think about this conversation of like, okay, we don't need to stay in our lane. So how do we create a new lane? You've hit on it a little bit. Just wanna dive just slightly deeper into this as we kind of wrap up our session and think through like, yeah, what are the these big takeaways of stepping into the gray, creating a new lane for us, either for ourselves, or as we help others who are in our organization.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, you know, for me, I feel like the the staying in the Lane topic. It it does come back to growth, not only for yourself, but again to the agency, you know for me, as everybody's kind of probably seen by now that other duties as assigned has been literal for myself, and I feel like every year on my annual we add at least an extra job duty or 2 to my job description. Just yeah, just go and tack it on. You know whether it's internship coordination or managing the Hrs. I mean, now, we just simply say, Okay, that's under other duties, but I I feel like when it comes to this and kind of balancing it as well. It's I don't know if someone crossing the the Grand canyon on a slack line, you know, cause it's not always going to be easy to balance both. You can't, you know, walk across the all willy nilly. It's it's going to be a tough situation, I guess, is what I'm trying to get to, because it's not always going to be that new role. And then you're gonna run into that less than seller feedback when it comes to trying to evolve a role itself.

So I guess to just put it bluntly. You have to have those conversations. You have to have the good relationships with your C-suite, with your supervisor, with your Hr teams, so that way you can naturally evolve within your space, but also not limit yourself on this opportunities. I I don't know what I would do if it came to the fact that I heard. No, you can't.

You know you can't navigate outside of your lane. I really like what you mentioned earlier, where you know it's everybody's in the same one. It's driving the mission of the organization driving the mission of the agency. And if you don't have that, if you don't have that opportunity or that flexibility that'd be tough. That'd be really tough for me.

So I know I kind of skirted around the question a little bit, but that's kind of where I'm at I do feel it's about the relationships and the conversations that you have, and also the willingness to.

Anna Swayne: Sure.

Jake Alsup: Say, Hey, this is something that I'm really interested in, and they say, No, you have to take it. No, it's not. Everything's gonna happen right away. But maybe you'll have that opportunity, you know, a little bit down the road, too. So again, I've had to be real. Then it's not fun having those conversations, but it's important to have as well, because it shows us other competing priorities, and you have to play the time management and organization game.

Anna Swayne: True. And I and I think that's why I've really liked your approach and your mindset here is because you're putting in a way of like, how do you think about it? From helping the agency or helping the company, or helping the mission move forward versus like this is what I want, because I think when you can come from a place of that, and even in your own experience, you've kind of, you know those things that have naturally fallen in line for you is because you've come from that that growth mindset of helping, not just you, but the entire. You know organization team move forward so.

Jake Alsup: I wish I was selfish at times like that makes something a little bit easier that get me wrong. But.

Anna Swayne: But yeah, can't do it. Maybe not because you balance this so well of, like, you know, doing your job well with, you know, taking on initiatives that aren't take technically yours. and I like the imagery of what what did you say? Your.

Jake Alsup: Yeah, I. So when it comes to balance, it is walking across the Grand Canyon on a slack line without a safety room.

Anna Swayne: And I was like, Whoa! That's that's some good imagery. There.

Jake Alsup: Well, I don't want to lead anyone the wrong way, because it's not the easiest to balance. I mean, let's call this what it is, it's a struggle with saying, No, right? I want to help. I want to be useful. I wanna be that person that someone relies. I want to contribute right. I want to generate that value like you mentioned earlier. But it does come at a cost, you know. There's only so much time today. There's only so much that you can do with that workday without burning out. and I'm sure those of you that work in talent know, you know, you have to be on top of those candidates or you lose them. Yeah, yeah. when you take on more, you have to be willing to take that direction to take that constructive feedback to have that conversation with your supervisor boss whomever, and know when it's time to kind of resettle and refocus.

And that does mean eating crow when the time comes to like I am the very first, st where, if I mess something up, if something drops that's on me like I I would take that every time, because, you know I get it. It's hard. It's nature of the game. Whenever you are yeah, operating the gray a little bit more.

Anna Swayne: Okay. So I'm so glad you brought up burnout, because I feel like that is probably a whole other discussion. You could come back and we could do a whole, you know, missing chapters on because it's it's I don't know what it is, but it's definitely happening, and maybe more and more people are becoming more burnout. So it's just like top of mind for for me, but that you brought it up. I'm wondering how you protect yourself from burnout when you're.

Jake Alsup: Yeah.

Anna Swayne: Thinking about all those things, the balancing act that you're you know you're doing.

Jake Alsup: Yeah. So you know, for myself, I guess it is a little bit of that. Adhd, that helps. But I feel like having that ability to expand outside of my job. Description has assisted me and not burning out, you know quite honestly, when I took this job and my supervisor and I at the time had the conversation where it's like, you know. I expect you to be here for 5 years, and then you'll go on to bigger and better things like, Yeah, you know, that's kind of my plan.

And yeah, we're here almost 9 years later. But it's because I've had those opportunities. I feel like to to do different things, to not do the same thing every day, not have those same talent struggles and trying to get in touch with candidates for no call, no shows with the same new Hire Orientation Day that I've done every Monday for the past 7 years. Okay, well, I switched it up a little bit about 2 years ago, but having that, you know, kind of differences in the day, it's what keeps me going, keeps me. Has that variety for me, because then to kind of hit on one of our Q&A's here, you know, there were. There have been times where I've wanted to walk away.

You know where it is too much, where I am burnt. And a great example was during that implementation, because Burnout not only affected me, but it affected my family, you know, because I was Co leading that implementation. And there's at least 25 HA week that I was spending on implementation and managing all the various imports. plus still doing my director of recruitment role, which is, you know, almost 40 h in of itself. This resulted in late nights and a lot of high stress, and what kept me from just bouncing out because I had every intention like after implementation is done. I'm I'm looking was. you know, it's the fact that I have these abilities. I have the support that I need to be successful.

So I decided to stick with it, and I'm glad that I did, because it could have been easy. It's like, no, I'm done. Good luck. but that's not me.

Anna Swayne: Yeah.

Jake Alsup: Like. It's not driving the mission that's not driving the agency forward. I believe in what we do. So having those opportunities been super helpful. But to better answer your question about burnout, I'll lean on my team. I have an awesome Hr. Recruiting assistant, and she's my right hand, so she help keeps me, keeps me here, and keeps me going, and organized too, but also I've got, you know, now, 6 year old twin boys at home, so they keep us pretty busy, but it does help knowing that what I'm doing as tough as it may be. You know it's for them. It's for them, my family. and you know I also like to sketch and draw while I'm a harsh critic myself. My boys love, if I can draw them a pokemon, and it looks like it. So we'll keep it going. And and also I I really like the solitude that, like hunting, I'm a big hunter here in southeast Missouri that provides to, even if I don't say anything, just having that nice quiet time out in nature is big for me.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, no, that's that's good. I think I love that. You are kind of talking to both sides of like burnout of like.

And I forgot. So thank you for putting in the chat. We do have another webinar coming up. Sounds like I need to attend that one. the balance of having. You know, you know the you know you can work all these hours, but knowing that also will impact your home in your family life, is so valuable, and and what you need to do to address that.

And if you don't know, you know, figure it out because.

Jake Alsup: Eap.

Anna Swayne: Yeah, you can.

Jake Alsup: Resources, yeah.

Anna Swayne: That's a great. So yeah, using your resources to ensure that, you know. you're taking advantage of it. And so yeah, thank you for addressing that question from Sonia. Her question was, was there every time you wanted to walk away? And what made you stay? And it sounds like, you know. Yeah, this implementation was way too much, you know, from an hours perspective. But again, going back to your mindset, your why, of like what you were doing why you were doing it. Helped you stay, focused and grounded and avoid burnout but continue down the path with Ccc to to further the growth there. So okay, this has been amazing, Jake. I could probably keep asking you questions. And and we could probably even go even deeper. So kind of have to wrap it up just on time sake. Thank you so much for being here. I have one last question, and that's just to end on kind of this, you know. Just a little tip here on, you know, if someone who is here with us, or we'll be watching this later. You know, they are looking to grow what is, and they're maybe feeling stuck in their role right now, what is like just a couple of quick things to end us, to help them get outside and explore outside their lane outside their job. Description.

Jake Alsup: Yeah. So I'm gonna toss something in the chat that I was thinking of again. We talked about AI resources and tools. And I know a lot of our staff use it as a therapist for itself. So I I put in a prompt, but I encourage everyone to maybe take a look at, utilize.

Anna Swayne: Yes, love it.

Jake Alsup: You know. My, my, go to Pre AI. Having this person I can talk to was, what is a job duty that I'm currently doing that I can make easier on myself, or what would assist me in doing my current job. Better sit down and look at your tasks. Look at your day to day. So anything that seems a little clunky, something that's eating up your time that really shouldn't see what you can do about maybe automating these processes, you know, if you automate 30 min, it's 30 more minutes of outside the lane work that you could do and maybe do a lot of exporting to excel, but aren't super well versed. Do an excel course, watch a Youtube video? Essentially. you have to make the effort to start taking those small baby steps outside of your comfort zone, and I feel like that'll really help explore that gray area outside of your lane.

Anna Swayne: I like that like that. And even if it's not like Job related you know, it could be to like kind of just practice before you get into a real project. That's such a great that's such a great.

Jake Alsup: Sorry I put that in everybody. There we go. I put it in the actual chat.

Anna Swayne: Oh, perfect! Yes.

Jake Alsup: Said to adjust that.

Anna Swayne: I was like, I see it just fine. And I'm so glad you called that out. Okay, well, Jake, this has been awesome. If you're not a part of our community. Please join, because that's a great way to continue this conversation. And you know. you know, talk to us. Talk to Jake. Talk to others who are also experienced. This, or, you know, want to continue the conversation about AI so that that's such a great tip, Jake, Jake, thanks for sharing that. Okay, and then really quick, before we end missing chapters next month. Is, I think, all about. Sorry I went out of order. Yeah, creating psychological safety, which you know trust is a big part of that. So please join us next month, if you can, and then also one other quick. Just note is we're going to be at Sherm. So if you're going to be there, please join us, or we're going to be at Booth 40, 50, or 40, 41. Jake, are you coming to sherm.

Jake Alsup: Not coming to stern. That's a quite a ways. No.

Anna Swayne: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Jake Alsup: Me a ticket and a plane ticket. I'll see you there.

Anna Swayne: Oh, okay, well, let's talk but if anyone's gonna be there, please join us. Join the community. We'll continue to have great conversations, and then join us next month for more chat about what?

You know what has been missing from all the chapters like this one of growth. In our handbook. So thanks again for joining us, Jake, you've been incredible. I am putting a sticky on of not. You're not failing you're growing. I think that's such great advice. So thanks everyone. We hope you have a wonderful day.

Jake Alsup: Thank you.

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